Hi David,
I share your view about the state transition: From acknowledged, inProgress, pending and held states we should be able to go to assessingCancellation state. I'm a bit perplex because the diagram in our internal TMF API repo has these transitions, but not the diagram published in the user guide. Sorry for the confusion.
Regarding amendment, as stated by
@Jonathan Goldberg, we have a Jira to track this but from my knowledge work has not started.
Hope it helps
Ludovic
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Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
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Original Message:
Sent: Aug 11, 2021 11:26
From: David Whitfield
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi @Ludovic Robert,
I wanted to clarify on the state transitions documented in v4.1.0 of TMF641. I can see that the transition to assessingCancellation is only from the Pending state. In our use case the client needs to be able to cancel the order even when everything is progressing nicely (InProgress). This might be because the customer has changed their mind on a particular service. I wondered why this transition wasnt present?
Whilst i know this is a little off topic there has clearly been some thoughts that the cancellation of an order is likely to be an asyncronous process needing some consideration hence the implementation of the task resource.
In our use case where the Amendment of an order is also an async operation where we might need to integrate with one or more external systems it feels like we have similar requirement. I wondered if this is something that had been discussed at TMF where rather than a patch of the order directly a 'amendServiceOrder' resource is created and the order managed through an assessingAmendment & pendingAmendment states?
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David Whitfield
TalkTalk Group
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 20, 2021 05:09
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hello Kinshuk,
We always target to have consistent behavior between order API when we have similar requirement (which could not be always the case... for example we could need additional state for productOrder not relevant for service/resourceOrder)
For AP-2280 please note that TMF API team governance decided to not provide a PATCH for cancel operation. Indeed, we want to avoid a recursive loop on cancel. We let implementation adds specific behavior if local context mandate it.
Thanks
Ludovic
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Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 20, 2021 02:44
From: Kinshuk Kulshreshtha
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi @Ludovic Robert,
I hope that the following changes are also planned for TMF622 Product Order API and TMF 652 Resource Order API so that we have everything is sync across the board
https://projects.tmforum.org/jira/browse/AP-2279
https://projects.tmforum.org/jira/browse/AP-2280
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Kinshuk Kulshreshtha
Oracle Corporation
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 19, 2021 09:18
From: David Whitfield
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi @Ludovic Robert thanks for your response i just wanted to check that this wasnt an illegal option as far as TMF goes, i think initially that our handler is async so this is the way we would have to go for the implementation. I will look into TMF 630 for the monitor implementation, thanks for the pointer.
@Koen Peeters, I do agree that the task resource does seem to be perhaps the better longer term option for us. I we have commenced our implemetation of 641 using the v18 schema and as i can see the cancel task was added in v4? Do you have much experience in uplifting from one version to the next in this space? I note there are a number of breaking changes to the interface (i.e. serviceOrderItem vs orderItem)
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David Whitfield
TalkTalk Group
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 15, 2021 03:34
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hello David,
If you PATCH directly the service order, for me, we have 2 scenarios:
- server side is able to handle it synchronously - in this case in the response the serviceOrder could shift to Cancelled directly (or inProgress if cancellation request wad denied by the server),
- server side in not able to handle it on the fly... in this case you need to send back a 'monitor' resource in the response to the PATCH to follow the cancellation request (Use of Monitor resource for asynchronous task completion is explained in TMF630 and illustrated in TMF640). The Monitor will allow you to follow the progress on the cancellation request. About the serviceOrder state itself, when the monitor is active, it is up to implementation rule to define it, but I guess using assessingCancellation is probably the best option.
Hope it helps,
Ludovic
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Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 13, 2021 15:45
From: David Whitfield
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
hi @Ludovic Robert, I've taken a look at the Jira issue and the thread and we this has come up for us during implementation too.
I'm interested in the case of going with the approach of performing a patch directly on the service order resource. Should a client perform this patch and update the state to 'Cancelled' (that sounds like the only sensible state to specify for a client from the state model) how would the service order transition through the 'AssessingCancellation' state which looking at the Jira it should (and i agree with).
Is the answer that the API would recieve this patch but rather than updating the resource to cancelled it would update it to 'AssessingCancellation'?
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David Whitfield
TalkTalk Group
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 08, 2020 03:21
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Thanks Rati - that will be very helpful to track these.
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Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 07, 2020 20:29
From: Rati Mehrotra
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi Ludovic,
Have created the two Jira tickets.
https://projects.tmforum.org/jira/browse/AP-2279
https://projects.tmforum.org/jira/browse/AP-2280
Thanks,
Rati
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Rati Mehrotra
Telstra Corporation
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 06, 2020 19:58
From: Rati Mehrotra
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi Ludovic,
Have raised a request for getting access to the API project
Thanks,
Rati
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Rati Mehrotra
Telstra Corporation
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 06, 2020 03:23
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hello Rati
1) Agreed with you. The 'cancelled' & 'assessiongCancellation" states should be reached from inProgress & Acnowledged. It was discussed as it and the state engine did do show it. We should add these transitions for next release (or before)
2) This is also a very good point; Perhaps trickier than the previous one because we could trigger some complex loop.
Because you company is part of the TMF API projet may I request you to trigger 2 separate JIRAs for these please? It will be them easier to track them for next release.
Thanks
Ludovic
------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
Original Message:
Sent: Jul 06, 2020 02:47
From: Rati Mehrotra
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi Ludovic,
Thanks for your assistance.
Can you also please assist in the following queries on cancelling an order.
1) As mentioned earlier, since service state is a patchable attribute, PATCH on service state can also be done for cancelling service order. According to 641 state transition, cancel state can be reached only from pending and held. Currently there is no state transition available from inProgress/acknowledge to Cancel. How can the consumer cancel if the service order state is inprogress/acknowledged? Attaching a presentation if further clarification is required.
2) cancelServiceOrder exposes only GET and POST operations, how can the consumer modify(like requestedCancellationDate) or withdraw a cancelServiceOrder?
Cheers,
Rati
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Rati Mehrotra
Telstra Corporation
Original Message:
Sent: Jun 19, 2020 04:46
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hello Rati
Adding a cancelOrder cames from the work done in cooperation with the MEF. In business between service provider it makes sense to have an operation requesting cancelling (product) order (and not allowing to modify the order itself). This cancellation request could take time, have its own status and required additional information (like cancellation reason) . Using the TMF Task pattern was assessed as a good option and in order to get MEF/TMF alignement MEF opted this way for product order.
Then this feature was redistributed to TMF and to have global API consistence we introduced it to all order API (product/service/resource).
Nothing prevent to still use a PATCH but to manage long running task you'll have to use Monitor pattern.
Hope it helps,
Ludovic
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Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
Original Message:
Sent: Jun 18, 2020 19:00
From: Rati Mehrotra
Subject: TMF 641 - understanding Cancel Service Order resource
Hi there,
While going through the TMF 641 v4 document, we have noticed the introduction of the new resource for Cancel Service Oder resource. Wanted to understand below points in regards to that:
1) Since "state" is a patchable attribute in V4 , can the consumers not directly do a patch on state for an inflight order. New states introduced in V4 like "assessingCancellation" and "Pending cancellation" can be used for long running cancellation
2) Is there any reference to understand the use case for introduction of Cancel service order resource?
Thanks,
Rati
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Rati Mehrotra
Telstra Corporation
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