Open APIs

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Could you be missing a piece of the SID model in your observations Dan?
I would rephrase your sentence "services are marketed to customers as product offerings" by "services (CFS/RFS) are linked to Product specifications which are marketed to customers as product offerings". Both, PO and PS, combine the specific set of characteristic values that can be combined for pricing. Low level view is not related with customers interactions, but systems.

Cheers.

------------------------------
------------------------------
SANTIAGO LORENTE JURADO
Pegasystems, Inc.
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.
------------------------------
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Thanks Santiago.

Actually I was wondering whether there was any follow-on from this article back in 2014...

https://inform.tmforum.org/features-and-analysis/2014/03/when-is-a-product-a-service/

------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 20, 2019 07:42
From: SANTIAGO LORENTE JURADO
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Could you be missing a piece of the SID model in your observations Dan?
I would rephrase your sentence "services are marketed to customers as product offerings" by "services (CFS/RFS) are linked to Product specifications which are marketed to customers as product offerings". Both, PO and PS, combine the specific set of characteristic values that can be combined for pricing. Low level view is not related with customers interactions, but systems.

Cheers.

------------------------------
------------------------------
SANTIAGO LORENTE JURADO
Pegasystems, Inc.
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Hi Dan,
     Just remember SID is a framework created by the current experiences of companies, vendors and specialist. But nothing in life is definitive and all can be proven wrong. However, at this time the model use ProductSpecification for tangible and untangible elements. The PS agregates both and then, they are realized by services and resources as stated in the GB922 Product document:
-----

The ProductSpecification represents a product specification as perceived by the business user and specifies what the marketing operator wants to sell at a functional level (i.e. what are the capacities, which usages are available…).

It can represent:

• tangible goods (Terminal, phone, mobile, fax, modem)
• or intangible goods (like an Anti-Spam service for email).

-----
On the other hand, if you are able to move your initiative forward and is proven right ... the new model could be simpler and clearer ;-)

good luck!​

------------------------------
------------------------------
SANTIAGO LORENTE JURADO
Pegasystems, Inc.
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.
------------------------------
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 23, 2019 02:37
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Thanks Santiago.

Actually I was wondering whether there was any follow-on from this article back in 2014...

https://inform.tmforum.org/features-and-analysis/2014/03/when-is-a-product-a-service/

------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 20, 2019 07:42
From: SANTIAGO LORENTE JURADO
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Could you be missing a piece of the SID model in your observations Dan?
I would rephrase your sentence "services are marketed to customers as product offerings" by "services (CFS/RFS) are linked to Product specifications which are marketed to customers as product offerings". Both, PO and PS, combine the specific set of characteristic values that can be combined for pricing. Low level view is not related with customers interactions, but systems.

Cheers.

------------------------------
------------------------------
SANTIAGO LORENTE JURADO
Pegasystems, Inc.
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

This question is really a  SID question
Think Jonathan has a correct assessment of the current  with the SID 
I hope Dirk will respond at some point because we are about to start putting some guideline together on the Product Service Resource modelling.
Note here is some historically material worth looking at :
IG1163 Information Framework (SID) Clarification Documents R17.5.1  specifically IG1163C
and this topic is touched upon in TMF518 _SA_2   see Service Management and Operations related – OM-DDPS – ServiceActivation (SA)   section 2.51.

------------------------------
Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Hi Dan, sorry for my delayed response.
I agree to @Jonathan Goldberg and @Dave Milham.
I do think then semantically ProductOffering is a sufficient concept for the "(digital) services industry".

Lean Startup (end others) are defining "Product" as "value delivered to the customer" - i.e. product is a very wide concept, containing services, tangible and ​​intangible assets (the commonality is that they are  perceived as "valuable" by customer - so they are willing to pay for it).
IG1163C (as Dave mentioned) is a very good description of products, services (customer facing and resource facing) and resources.

Currently we are describing how alternative modeling options can be applied that are more relevant for cloud and virtualisation, which are resource functions as an alternative concept for resource facing services. One activity in this context is the collection of guidelines to model "vertical solutions" (vertical means that the guideline are cutting across domains - product, service and resource).

Your question suggests that you may have scenarios that cannot easily modelled with the existing concepts of product offering. If so, it would be great if you can share these scenarios with out, so we can use them as input for the activities, mentioned above.

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 23, 2019 10:01
From: Dave Milham
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

This question is really a  SID question
Think Jonathan has a correct assessment of the current  with the SID
I hope Dirk will respond at some point because we are about to start putting some guideline together on the Product Service Resource modelling.
Note here is some historically material worth looking at :
IG1163 Information Framework (SID) Clarification Documents R17.5.1  specifically IG1163C
and this topic is touched upon in TMF518 _SA_2   see Service Management and Operations related – OM-DDPS – ServiceActivation (SA)   section 2.51.

------------------------------
Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Thank you Dirk.

IG1163C  does indeed provide a detailed explanation of the service specification terms.  I think I was/am uncomfortable with the naming convention for customer-facing services, especially after reading  the TMForum article on products and service offerings.  Also, that the OpenAPI is using this terminology.

Happy New Year!
Dan.

------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 12:16
From: Dirk Rejahl
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan, sorry for my delayed response.
I agree to @Jonathan Goldberg and @Dave Milham.
I do think then semantically ProductOffering is a sufficient concept for the "(digital) services industry".

Lean Startup (end others) are defining "Product" as "value delivered to the customer" - i.e. product is a very wide concept, containing services, tangible and ​​intangible assets (the commonality is that they are  perceived as "valuable" by customer - so they are willing to pay for it).
IG1163C (as Dave mentioned) is a very good description of products, services (customer facing and resource facing) and resources.

Currently we are describing how alternative modeling options can be applied that are more relevant for cloud and virtualisation, which are resource functions as an alternative concept for resource facing services. One activity in this context is the collection of guidelines to model "vertical solutions" (vertical means that the guideline are cutting across domains - product, service and resource).

Your question suggests that you may have scenarios that cannot easily modelled with the existing concepts of product offering. If so, it would be great if you can share these scenarios with out, so we can use them as input for the activities, mentioned above.

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 23, 2019 10:01
From: Dave Milham
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

This question is really a  SID question
Think Jonathan has a correct assessment of the current  with the SID
I hope Dirk will respond at some point because we are about to start putting some guideline together on the Product Service Resource modelling.
Note here is some historically material worth looking at :
IG1163 Information Framework (SID) Clarification Documents R17.5.1  specifically IG1163C
and this topic is touched upon in TMF518 _SA_2   see Service Management and Operations related – OM-DDPS – ServiceActivation (SA)   section 2.51.

------------------------------
Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Hi Dan,
Yes, you are right, the term "customer facing service" is confusing as these services are technically "product facing services".

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 22:32
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Thank you Dirk.

IG1163C  does indeed provide a detailed explanation of the service specification terms.  I think I was/am uncomfortable with the naming convention for customer-facing services, especially after reading  the TMForum article on products and service offerings.  Also, that the OpenAPI is using this terminology.

Happy New Year!
Dan.

------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 12:16
From: Dirk Rejahl
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan, sorry for my delayed response.
I agree to @Jonathan Goldberg and @Dave Milham.
I do think then semantically ProductOffering is a sufficient concept for the "(digital) services industry".

Lean Startup (end others) are defining "Product" as "value delivered to the customer" - i.e. product is a very wide concept, containing services, tangible and ​​intangible assets (the commonality is that they are  perceived as "valuable" by customer - so they are willing to pay for it).
IG1163C (as Dave mentioned) is a very good description of products, services (customer facing and resource facing) and resources.

Currently we are describing how alternative modeling options can be applied that are more relevant for cloud and virtualisation, which are resource functions as an alternative concept for resource facing services. One activity in this context is the collection of guidelines to model "vertical solutions" (vertical means that the guideline are cutting across domains - product, service and resource).

Your question suggests that you may have scenarios that cannot easily modelled with the existing concepts of product offering. If so, it would be great if you can share these scenarios with out, so we can use them as input for the activities, mentioned above.

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 23, 2019 10:01
From: Dave Milham
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

This question is really a  SID question
Think Jonathan has a correct assessment of the current  with the SID
I hope Dirk will respond at some point because we are about to start putting some guideline together on the Product Service Resource modelling.
Note here is some historically material worth looking at :
IG1163 Information Framework (SID) Clarification Documents R17.5.1  specifically IG1163C
and this topic is touched upon in TMF518 _SA_2   see Service Management and Operations related – OM-DDPS – ServiceActivation (SA)   section 2.51.

------------------------------
Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

HI Dan and Dirk,

With the  physical resources it would be good to go ahead with "product facing services" but with digitization and virtual resources it would be good to model it  resource facing services.

Happy new year !!!

Thanks and Regards,
Deepak Jawarkar
Telecom Consultant
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

------------------------------
deepak jawarkar
Infosys
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 30, 2019 04:34
From: Dirk Rejahl
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan,
Yes, you are right, the term "customer facing service" is confusing as these services are technically "product facing services".

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 22:32
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Thank you Dirk.

IG1163C  does indeed provide a detailed explanation of the service specification terms.  I think I was/am uncomfortable with the naming convention for customer-facing services, especially after reading  the TMForum article on products and service offerings.  Also, that the OpenAPI is using this terminology.

Happy New Year!
Dan.

------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 12:16
From: Dirk Rejahl
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan, sorry for my delayed response.
I agree to @Jonathan Goldberg and @Dave Milham.
I do think then semantically ProductOffering is a sufficient concept for the "(digital) services industry".

Lean Startup (end others) are defining "Product" as "value delivered to the customer" - i.e. product is a very wide concept, containing services, tangible and ​​intangible assets (the commonality is that they are  perceived as "valuable" by customer - so they are willing to pay for it).
IG1163C (as Dave mentioned) is a very good description of products, services (customer facing and resource facing) and resources.

Currently we are describing how alternative modeling options can be applied that are more relevant for cloud and virtualisation, which are resource functions as an alternative concept for resource facing services. One activity in this context is the collection of guidelines to model "vertical solutions" (vertical means that the guideline are cutting across domains - product, service and resource).

Your question suggests that you may have scenarios that cannot easily modelled with the existing concepts of product offering. If so, it would be great if you can share these scenarios with out, so we can use them as input for the activities, mentioned above.

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 23, 2019 10:01
From: Dave Milham
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

This question is really a  SID question
Think Jonathan has a correct assessment of the current  with the SID
I hope Dirk will respond at some point because we are about to start putting some guideline together on the Product Service Resource modelling.
Note here is some historically material worth looking at :
IG1163 Information Framework (SID) Clarification Documents R17.5.1  specifically IG1163C
and this topic is touched upon in TMF518 _SA_2   see Service Management and Operations related – OM-DDPS – ServiceActivation (SA)   section 2.51.

------------------------------
Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


------------------------------
Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
------------------------------

Actually for digitalisation and Virtualisation we have a SID concept of Resource Function which has number of technical advantage over use of Resource Facing Services. this has been the subject of extensive ZOOM and ODA discussions
Have a look at GB922 Logical and compound Resource Computing and Software . We are updating this in R19-5 to address this topic explicitly with clearer explanations and better examples. Resource Functions are better for virtualisation , intent management and hybrid networks . the updates should be published shortly. But the TR 255 Suite has a pretty complete overview of this topic  the rational and usage examples.  TR255 Resource Function Activation and Configuration Suite R17.5.0

------------------------------
Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 31, 2019 01:56
From: deepak jawarkar
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

HI Dan and Dirk,

With the  physical resources it would be good to go ahead with "product facing services" but with digitization and virtual resources it would be good to model it  resource facing services.

Happy new year !!!

Thanks and Regards,
Deepak Jawarkar
Telecom Consultant
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

------------------------------
deepak jawarkar
Infosys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 30, 2019 04:34
From: Dirk Rejahl
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan,
Yes, you are right, the term "customer facing service" is confusing as these services are technically "product facing services".

Best regards,
Dirk

------------------------------
Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 22:32
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Thank you Dirk.

IG1163C  does indeed provide a detailed explanation of the service specification terms.  I think I was/am uncomfortable with the naming convention for customer-facing services, especially after reading  the TMForum article on products and service offerings.  Also, that the OpenAPI is using this terminology.

Happy New Year!
Dan.

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Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 29, 2019 12:16
From: Dirk Rejahl
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan, sorry for my delayed response.
I agree to @Jonathan Goldberg and @Dave Milham.
I do think then semantically ProductOffering is a sufficient concept for the "(digital) services industry".

Lean Startup (end others) are defining "Product" as "value delivered to the customer" - i.e. product is a very wide concept, containing services, tangible and ​​intangible assets (the commonality is that they are  perceived as "valuable" by customer - so they are willing to pay for it).
IG1163C (as Dave mentioned) is a very good description of products, services (customer facing and resource facing) and resources.

Currently we are describing how alternative modeling options can be applied that are more relevant for cloud and virtualisation, which are resource functions as an alternative concept for resource facing services. One activity in this context is the collection of guidelines to model "vertical solutions" (vertical means that the guideline are cutting across domains - product, service and resource).

Your question suggests that you may have scenarios that cannot easily modelled with the existing concepts of product offering. If so, it would be great if you can share these scenarios with out, so we can use them as input for the activities, mentioned above.

Best regards,
Dirk

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Dirk Rejahl
TM Forum

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 23, 2019 10:01
From: Dave Milham
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

This question is really a  SID question
Think Jonathan has a correct assessment of the current  with the SID
I hope Dirk will respond at some point because we are about to start putting some guideline together on the Product Service Resource modelling.
Note here is some historically material worth looking at :
IG1163 Information Framework (SID) Clarification Documents R17.5.1  specifically IG1163C
and this topic is touched upon in TMF518 _SA_2   see Service Management and Operations related – OM-DDPS – ServiceActivation (SA)   section 2.51.

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Dave Milham
TM Forum chief architect

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 08:28
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi Dan
I doubt that this will happen - the whole point is that what is sold to customers are indeed the product offerings, according to their attached product offering prices.
The service is an internal representation and implementation of that product.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that even in transactions that are not customer-related, e.g. partners or suppliers, the service would be wrapped in commercial terms represented by product offering and friends.

So lets say that Purple (fictitious CSP) offers business broadband and VPN in the NA market, but due to regulatory issues it doesn't have the last mile for Contoso. So it goes to the CLEC (NXT, another fictitious CSP) for the connectivity. Contoso is unaware that the connectivity is being supplied by NXT. NXT of course offers its connectivity perhaps to end customers, but also to CSPs such as Purple, there would presumably be a different Product Catalog exposed to the different party types, with different set of offerings.
Hope this makes sense
But adding SID wizards @Cecile Ludwichowski and @Dirk Rejahl for their viewpoint.​​

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Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 19, 2019 04:12
From: Dan d'Albuquerque
Subject: Product Offerings versus Service Offerings

Hi All

Within Frameworx, services are marketed to customers as product offerings.  Are there any plans to support service offerings in the future such that services can have prices?

Thanks in advance


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Dan d'Albuquerque
TO BE VERIFIED
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