Dear All
Thanks for all the contributions, very useful to see the thinking.
I guess we moved on a lot from Darren's original request to have building name for the main address and not just the sub-premises.
Sorry if me mentioning Organisation Name is a diversion.
But (!) as a final word from me on this at least. this is what the UK national standard BS7666 2006 parts 1-5 (a standard for geographic referencing and compilation of land and land use gazetteers) states when describing structures located on parcels of land known as "Basic Land and Property Units" (BLPU). Each BLPU has one or more identifiers called a Land or Property Identifier (LPI). Each LPI consists of a
Primary Addressable Object Name (to identify the main structure).
Secondary Addressable Object Name (to identify sub premises).
Post Code/Post Town.
Street Name (by reference to the street gazetteer).
Where does the organisation name come in? This is the definition of the Primary Addressable Object Name.
The Primary Addressable Object Name (PAON) is the designated premise number, and/or the premise name, where neither of these exist then
the PAON is the name of the organisation in occupation, or a description of the addressable object.
As Victor mentioned.
"Unlike delivery GeographicalAddress is just a point on the map and should rather describe what's located there."
But sometimes (in my opinion) the description includes the big name in lights above the building like the Lidl or Aldi in a retail park.
And the point is that is what the published third party databases to which you are matching these things will contain.
https://www.agi.org.uk/bs-7666-guidelines/------------------------------
Derrick Evans
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Original Message:
Sent: Nov 01, 2021 07:51
From: Steve Ranford-Bragg
Subject: TMF673 - GeographicAddress - Building
Hi,
For my purposes, apart from the building name name and organisation, mostly I don't think these the fields I need are things I'd expect to be added to the base model as they either company or country specific. For example, for the UK address standard we have things such as "double dependent locality" which describes a smaller unit of location such as a business or industrial estate as part of an address or we have an internal classification of the quality of an address such as gold (an address we serve), silver (imported from an external address source) or bronze (created by a customer as part of an order process). I wouldn't expect the TMF to model these and we'd put into what we'd refer to as an "OpenreachGeographicAddress" sub-class extension to the base model.
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Steve Ranford-Bragg
BT Group plc
Original Message:
Sent: Nov 01, 2021 07:40
From: Florin Tene
Subject: TMF673 - GeographicAddress - Building
Hi,
Thank you all for the inputs and apologies for my late contribution.
@Tomáš Hajný, you are right; there are scenarios, especially in the Shipping context, where you might want to capture a delivery point with details regarding and individual/organization without recording them as "party" in the customer domain. For example, when we have one party playing the role of the customer buying products but wants the items delivered to another individual/organization address - like in your example to his workplace. This scenario is handled inside the ShippingOrder API via the "RelatedPartyWithContactInfo", where we can capture an individual/organization with the Address or any other contact point information. In this case, the information is captured only in the context of the shipping process (Order/Customer/Shipping), not necessarily for the generic context of the Address entity.
@Victor Anfimov articulated the difference between the GeographicAddress and a DeliveryAddress correctly.
GeographicAddress is in theory being managed by the LocationManagement platform:
- TAM -> 7.15 -
- Location Management provides the required functionality to manage the physical and logical attributes of location data for the service provider. It can include addresses (street, city, state/province, & country), geospatial information (lat/long)
On the overall, I agree with you both, it doesn't make sense to capture all the "Organisations" as parties if they are not really parties in your space just for the sake of the address-organization relationship - plus it would be a very tedious process.
In my view (which I think was also raised by @Victor Anfimov above), the organization name can't be considered address information. Still, I understand that in some cases, some CSP might want to capture "additional" information related to an address relevant to them. If they're going to capture "organization-name" or "building color" or whatever else it is up for their internal use-cases - however we need to always keep in mind the bounded context of the "Address" entity and not go wild.
So, maybe a generic approach that will allow capturing additional information for a particular address is something to be brought up for the API Governance; For this i've raise the AP-3006 today.
@Jan Lemmermann, yes, the summary of all the latest changes is available here ( https://projects.tmforum.org/wiki/display/AP/Detail+view+on+TMF673) with a summary of them below:
• AP-2719 - TMF 673 - Geo Address - does not have event for POST address
• AP-2718 - TMF 673 - Geo Address Validation - swagger not aligned with user guide
• AP-2656 - Wrong path for subresource href in examples
• AP-2633 - Conformance update for AddressValidation
• AP-2610 - TMF673 - Geographic Address - Enhance with additional operations (Post, Patch, Delete)
• AP-2485 - TMF673 - Geographic Address - Enhance with countryCode and
• AP-1032 - Geographic Address - discrepancy between spec and conformance document
• AP-2834 - TMF673 - Geographic Address – Enhance with GeographicAddressType
• AP-2790 - Manage an array of SubUnit in GeographicSubAddress
In addition to the above, there is also the AP-2999 (BuildingName) which is pending API Governance call and today i've raise the AP-3006 to see what options are available to capture additional information (scenarios presented above)
@Steve Ranford-Bragg, can you share with us what additional information you want to capture and how your mapping looks like ? I think we need to look at any opportunity to enhance the openAPIs to be a better fit and to keep the level of sub-classing to a minimum. Happy to raise them in the API Governance and get the feedback.
Thank you,
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Florin Tene
CityFibre
Original Message:
Sent: Oct 20, 2021 03:43
From: Steve Ranford-Bragg
Subject: TMF673 - GeographicAddress - Building
Hi Darren,
We're beginning work on the address API for Openreach and we have similar issue but also have additional properties which we want to add so will be sub-classing the address property to produce something more specific. The base address model is fairly generic and so we need to extend it to also include things which we use in the UK address such as county and dependent thoroughfare, but also include building name and sub building name. In your example, if you look at the address for Riverside House, that is held in the building name.
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Steve Ranford-Bragg
BT Group plc
Original Message:
Sent: Oct 19, 2021 12:03
From: Darren Wylie
Subject: TMF673 - GeographicAddress - Building
Hi
I am trying to model the address below using TMF673 Geographic Address but it does not seem to fit.
Riverside Tower, 5, Lanyon Place, Belfast, BT1 3BT
The part at issue is the building name, 'Riverside Tower'. There appears to be no suitable field in the GeographicAddress resource to hold it. The following have been suggested :-
name - this seems unsuitable as it appears to be some sort of friendly name rather than the official name of the building which constitutes the address
GeographicSubAddress.buildingName - this also seems unsuitable as there is no sense in which 'Riverside Tower' is a property of a sub-address. Rather, it acts as the defining characteristic of the address, equal to (and possibly an alternative to) the street number (5)
I was probably expecting to find something in the GeographicAddress resource like 'building' or 'premisesName' in which to place it.
Any help appreciated, Darren
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Darren Wylie
BT Group plc
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