Open APIs

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Hello Opher

AssociationSpecRef is a "placeholder" to associate the relationship to policy rule (Probably we could change in future AssociationSpec to PolicyRule). The relationship is conditional and depends on the policy rule.  The team is working to deliver a Policy rule management API (TMF723) in future and we have plan to integrate it in other APIs (as optional).

From a business perspective, you could have rule(s) at ProcessFlowSpecification or TaskFlowSpecification that specify if another ProcessFlowSpecification/TaskFlowSpecification should be triggered. Example - in the process order Capture (Process flow specification definition) if the party in not yet registered in your system (policy rule) then the party Creation process must be triggered (relationship to another Processflow specification).

Hope it helps

Ludovic

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 06:08
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you, it is clear.

A Policy Rule Management API will indeed be very useful.

Best regards,


------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:25
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

AssociationSpecRef is a "placeholder" to associate the relationship to policy rule (Probably we could change in future AssociationSpec to PolicyRule). The relationship is conditional and depends on the policy rule.  The team is working to deliver a Policy rule management API (TMF723) in future and we have plan to integrate it in other APIs (as optional).

From a business perspective, you could have rule(s) at ProcessFlowSpecification or TaskFlowSpecification that specify if another ProcessFlowSpecification/TaskFlowSpecification should be triggered. Example - in the process order Capture (Process flow specification definition) if the party in not yet registered in your system (policy rule) then the party Creation process must be triggered (relationship to another Processflow specification).

Hope it helps

Ludovic

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 06:08
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Hello again Ludovic,

I have just noticed that an Association Specification resource is defined in detail in TMF662 Entity Catalog Management API... I have a couple questions about it, please bear with me as I lay out my observations before asking the questions.


Observations

When I follow the series of compositions, I get the following:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (with "relationType" and "role" attributes) -> AssociationSpecificationRef

And separately:
AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).

entityType is defined as follows: "A string. The target (root) entity type associated with this role."

Also, when I look in the Json representation sample of an AssociationSpecification, I find the following (see the last line in the excerpt below):



So TMF622 already assumes the existence of a Policy Management API...

Questions:

1. It seems to me that according to the typical patterns used in TMF APIs, the "entityType" attribute of the AssociationRoleSpecification should be replaced with an entitySpecificationRef that 'points' to an EntitySpecification resource. Would you agree?

2. My understanding is that the "role" attribute of the EntitySpecificationRelationship will be used only when there is no AssociationSpecification used. However, if association (with constraints) is desired, then the role will be specified by the AssociationRoleSpecification, and we get the following series of compositions:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (no "role" attribute) -> AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).
In here the "entityType" in fact points back to the EntitySpecification.
Is my understanding correct? Won't you agree that the definition of role in this case is a bit over complicated?

3. The Policy Management I quoted above, is it indeed the same as the Policy Rule Management you mentioned in your original reply?


Thank you and best regards,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:45
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you, it is clear.

A Policy Rule Management API will indeed be very useful.

Best regards,


------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:25
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

AssociationSpecRef is a "placeholder" to associate the relationship to policy rule (Probably we could change in future AssociationSpec to PolicyRule). The relationship is conditional and depends on the policy rule.  The team is working to deliver a Policy rule management API (TMF723) in future and we have plan to integrate it in other APIs (as optional).

From a business perspective, you could have rule(s) at ProcessFlowSpecification or TaskFlowSpecification that specify if another ProcessFlowSpecification/TaskFlowSpecification should be triggered. Example - in the process order Capture (Process flow specification definition) if the party in not yet registered in your system (policy rule) then the party Creation process must be triggered (relationship to another Processflow specification).

Hope it helps

Ludovic

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 06:08
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Hello Opher

Not easy questions. I will need the help of @Kamal Maghsoudlou as Kamal is our expert in this domain.

I tend to agree with you for 1/
For 2/ in my implementation i follow this pattern:

• when i need to have a relation with same entity type  (example relationship between productOrder item) used the xxxRelationship pattern with a relationshipType attribute but not the role
• when I need a explicit relation with distinct entity type (example between a Product order and a party) i used the relatedXXXX pattern with role attribute but not the relationshipType. 
• when I need a implicit relation with distinct entity type (example between a Product order item and a product offering) i used the xxxxRef pattern with not role attribute and not relationshipType. 

For 3/ yes but because TMF662 was released before than TMF723 (still in progress) there will be some things to ​set up.

I repeat I'm not the expert in TMF662 and Kamal is welcome to correct/complete my statement there.

Hope it helps

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 26, 2022 13:13
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello again Ludovic,

I have just noticed that an Association Specification resource is defined in detail in TMF662 Entity Catalog Management API... I have a couple questions about it, please bear with me as I lay out my observations before asking the questions.


Observations

When I follow the series of compositions, I get the following:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (with "relationType" and "role" attributes) -> AssociationSpecificationRef

And separately:
AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).

entityType is defined as follows: "A string. The target (root) entity type associated with this role."

Also, when I look in the Json representation sample of an AssociationSpecification, I find the following (see the last line in the excerpt below):



So TMF622 already assumes the existence of a Policy Management API...

Questions:

1. It seems to me that according to the typical patterns used in TMF APIs, the "entityType" attribute of the AssociationRoleSpecification should be replaced with an entitySpecificationRef that 'points' to an EntitySpecification resource. Would you agree?

2. My understanding is that the "role" attribute of the EntitySpecificationRelationship will be used only when there is no AssociationSpecification used. However, if association (with constraints) is desired, then the role will be specified by the AssociationRoleSpecification, and we get the following series of compositions:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (no "role" attribute) -> AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).
In here the "entityType" in fact points back to the EntitySpecification.
Is my understanding correct? Won't you agree that the definition of role in this case is a bit over complicated?

3. The Policy Management I quoted above, is it indeed the same as the Policy Rule Management you mentioned in your original reply?


Thank you and best regards,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:45
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you, it is clear.

A Policy Rule Management API will indeed be very useful.

Best regards,


------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:25
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

AssociationSpecRef is a "placeholder" to associate the relationship to policy rule (Probably we could change in future AssociationSpec to PolicyRule). The relationship is conditional and depends on the policy rule.  The team is working to deliver a Policy rule management API (TMF723) in future and we have plan to integrate it in other APIs (as optional).

From a business perspective, you could have rule(s) at ProcessFlowSpecification or TaskFlowSpecification that specify if another ProcessFlowSpecification/TaskFlowSpecification should be triggered. Example - in the process order Capture (Process flow specification definition) if the party in not yet registered in your system (policy rule) then the party Creation process must be triggered (relationship to another Processflow specification).

Hope it helps

Ludovic

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 06:08
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I will await further insights from Kamal.

With regards to my question 2, it focused on the case when one wishes to specify an association. I realize that you have not used it in your implementation so far, but how would you envision it being used?

Best regards,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 29, 2022 04:53
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

Not easy questions. I will need the help of @Kamal Maghsoudlou as Kamal is our expert in this domain.

I tend to agree with you for 1/
For 2/ in my implementation i follow this pattern:

• when i need to have a relation with same entity type  (example relationship between productOrder item) used the xxxRelationship pattern with a relationshipType attribute but not the role
• when I need a explicit relation with distinct entity type (example between a Product order and a party) i used the relatedXXXX pattern with role attribute but not the relationshipType. 
• when I need a implicit relation with distinct entity type (example between a Product order item and a product offering) i used the xxxxRef pattern with not role attribute and not relationshipType. 

For 3/ yes but because TMF662 was released before than TMF723 (still in progress) there will be some things to ​set up.

I repeat I'm not the expert in TMF662 and Kamal is welcome to correct/complete my statement there.

Hope it helps

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 26, 2022 13:13
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello again Ludovic,

I have just noticed that an Association Specification resource is defined in detail in TMF662 Entity Catalog Management API... I have a couple questions about it, please bear with me as I lay out my observations before asking the questions.


Observations

When I follow the series of compositions, I get the following:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (with "relationType" and "role" attributes) -> AssociationSpecificationRef

And separately:
AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).

entityType is defined as follows: "A string. The target (root) entity type associated with this role."

Also, when I look in the Json representation sample of an AssociationSpecification, I find the following (see the last line in the excerpt below):



So TMF622 already assumes the existence of a Policy Management API...

Questions:

1. It seems to me that according to the typical patterns used in TMF APIs, the "entityType" attribute of the AssociationRoleSpecification should be replaced with an entitySpecificationRef that 'points' to an EntitySpecification resource. Would you agree?

2. My understanding is that the "role" attribute of the EntitySpecificationRelationship will be used only when there is no AssociationSpecification used. However, if association (with constraints) is desired, then the role will be specified by the AssociationRoleSpecification, and we get the following series of compositions:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (no "role" attribute) -> AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).
In here the "entityType" in fact points back to the EntitySpecification.
Is my understanding correct? Won't you agree that the definition of role in this case is a bit over complicated?

3. The Policy Management I quoted above, is it indeed the same as the Policy Rule Management you mentioned in your original reply?


Thank you and best regards,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:45
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you, it is clear.

A Policy Rule Management API will indeed be very useful.

Best regards,


------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:25
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

AssociationSpecRef is a "placeholder" to associate the relationship to policy rule (Probably we could change in future AssociationSpec to PolicyRule). The relationship is conditional and depends on the policy rule.  The team is working to deliver a Policy rule management API (TMF723) in future and we have plan to integrate it in other APIs (as optional).

From a business perspective, you could have rule(s) at ProcessFlowSpecification or TaskFlowSpecification that specify if another ProcessFlowSpecification/TaskFlowSpecification should be triggered. Example - in the process order Capture (Process flow specification definition) if the party in not yet registered in your system (policy rule) then the party Creation process must be triggered (relationship to another Processflow specification).

Hope it helps

Ludovic

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 06:08
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Hello @Kamal Maghsoudlou,

I am following up on @Ludovic Robert 's message above. Will be happy to hear your opinion on my questions (message number 4 in this thread.)

Thank you and best regards,
​​​​

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 29, 2022 09:50
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I will await further insights from Kamal.

With regards to my question 2, it focused on the case when one wishes to specify an association. I realize that you have not used it in your implementation so far, but how would you envision it being used?

Best regards,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 29, 2022 04:53
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

Not easy questions. I will need the help of @Kamal Maghsoudlou as Kamal is our expert in this domain.

I tend to agree with you for 1/
For 2/ in my implementation i follow this pattern:

• when i need to have a relation with same entity type  (example relationship between productOrder item) used the xxxRelationship pattern with a relationshipType attribute but not the role
• when I need a explicit relation with distinct entity type (example between a Product order and a party) i used the relatedXXXX pattern with role attribute but not the relationshipType. 
• when I need a implicit relation with distinct entity type (example between a Product order item and a product offering) i used the xxxxRef pattern with not role attribute and not relationshipType. 

For 3/ yes but because TMF662 was released before than TMF723 (still in progress) there will be some things to ​set up.

I repeat I'm not the expert in TMF662 and Kamal is welcome to correct/complete my statement there.

Hope it helps

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 26, 2022 13:13
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello again Ludovic,

I have just noticed that an Association Specification resource is defined in detail in TMF662 Entity Catalog Management API... I have a couple questions about it, please bear with me as I lay out my observations before asking the questions.


Observations

When I follow the series of compositions, I get the following:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (with "relationType" and "role" attributes) -> AssociationSpecificationRef

And separately:
AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).

entityType is defined as follows: "A string. The target (root) entity type associated with this role."

Also, when I look in the Json representation sample of an AssociationSpecification, I find the following (see the last line in the excerpt below):



So TMF622 already assumes the existence of a Policy Management API...

Questions:

1. It seems to me that according to the typical patterns used in TMF APIs, the "entityType" attribute of the AssociationRoleSpecification should be replaced with an entitySpecificationRef that 'points' to an EntitySpecification resource. Would you agree?

2. My understanding is that the "role" attribute of the EntitySpecificationRelationship will be used only when there is no AssociationSpecification used. However, if association (with constraints) is desired, then the role will be specified by the AssociationRoleSpecification, and we get the following series of compositions:
EntitySpecification -> EntitySpecificationRelationship (no "role" attribute) -> AssociationSpecification -> AssociationRoleSpecification (with "entityType" and "role" attributes).
In here the "entityType" in fact points back to the EntitySpecification.
Is my understanding correct? Won't you agree that the definition of role in this case is a bit over complicated?

3. The Policy Management I quoted above, is it indeed the same as the Policy Rule Management you mentioned in your original reply?


Thank you and best regards,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:45
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Ludovic,

Thank you, it is clear.

A Policy Rule Management API will indeed be very useful.

Best regards,


------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 11:25
From: Ludovic Robert
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello Opher

AssociationSpecRef is a "placeholder" to associate the relationship to policy rule (Probably we could change in future AssociationSpec to PolicyRule). The relationship is conditional and depends on the policy rule.  The team is working to deliver a Policy rule management API (TMF723) in future and we have plan to integrate it in other APIs (as optional).

From a business perspective, you could have rule(s) at ProcessFlowSpecification or TaskFlowSpecification that specify if another ProcessFlowSpecification/TaskFlowSpecification should be triggered. Example - in the process order Capture (Process flow specification definition) if the party in not yet registered in your system (policy rule) then the party Creation process must be triggered (relationship to another Processflow specification).

Hope it helps

Ludovic

------------------------------
Ludovic Robert
Orange
My answer are my own & don't represent necessarily my company or the TMF

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 22, 2022 06:08
From: Opher Yaron
Subject: Association Specification in TMF701 Process Flow Management API

Hello experts,

In TMF701 the resource models of both ProcessFlowSpecification and TaskFlowSpecification include an AssociationSpecRef class that is pointed to from ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship respectively.

I do not find a definition of Association Specification, and do not understand what information it is supposed to represent, as the relationshipType itself is already included in the ProcessFlowSpecificationRelationship/TaskFlowSpecificationRelationship class.

What do I miss?

Thank you,

------------------------------
Opher Yaron
Proximus SA
------------------------------