Open APIs

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Here the example. It is CFS, but it doesn't matter for our discussion, it can be applied to any object:
Object: ManagedService has two groups
- ServiceConfiguraiton
- Remarks

ServiceConfiguraiton group has characteristics:
- ServiceCode
- ServiceDescription
.... etc...
Remarks group has characteristics:
- Type
- Details

In addition - "groups" have cardinalities. For example, we may have zero or many remarks.
Thanks,
I can't really give you business inside on all of these fields, I was not part of the service design.

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

Not sure I understand why you need the group, what is the practical effect for consumers or providers of this information.

Here the example. It is CFS, but it doesn't matter for our discussion, it can be applied to any object:
Object: ManagedService has two groups
- ServiceConfiguraiton
- Remarks

ServiceConfiguraiton group has characteristics:
- ServiceCode
- ServiceDescription
.... etc...
Remarks group has characteristics:
- Type
- Details

In addition - "groups" have cardinalities. For example, we may have zero or many remarks.
Thanks,
I can't really give you business inside on all of these fields, I was not part of the service design.

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

It doesn't have business meaning. It is just convenient way to present it to a user in UI.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:06
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Not sure I understand why you need the group, what is the practical effect for consumers or providers of this information.

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 14:55
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Here the example. It is CFS, but it doesn't matter for our discussion, it can be applied to any object:
Object: ManagedService has two groups
- ServiceConfiguraiton
- Remarks

ServiceConfiguraiton group has characteristics:
- ServiceCode
- ServiceDescription
.... etc...
Remarks group has characteristics:
- Type
- Details

In addition - "groups" have cardinalities. For example, we may have zero or many remarks.
Thanks,
I can't really give you business inside on all of these fields, I was not part of the service design.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 05:20
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 04:24
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:51
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:47
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:03
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 06:46
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 04:05
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 09, 2023 16:16
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada
------------------------------

Hi Igor,

This is an interesting case. TM Forum Open Digital Architecture has good recommendation for your need.

Product Catalogue and API620 belong to the "core commerce Management" block.  Core commerce block is not meant to manage UI needs. There is a separation of concerns between commerce capabilties and how parties engage (interact and experience) with these capabilities. you can check the ODA Component map to see the recommended functional carchitecture.

What you need belongs to the "Engagement Management" block, which cover multiple capabilities (content, navigation, channel, UI, experience...)

For instance, a CMS can manage how users see product characteristics (some vendors now put their the entire product catalogue in a CMS/PIM to manage the product user experience depending on language, geographic area, device, channel... Some vendors even provide connectors between the product catalogue and the CMS/PIM/PXM.

other ref:

Customer Experience Management Project

PS: characteristics alrady support cardinality in the 620API.

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:16
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

It doesn't have business meaning. It is just convenient way to present it to a user in UI.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:06
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Not sure I understand why you need the group, what is the practical effect for consumers or providers of this information.

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 14:55
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Here the example. It is CFS, but it doesn't matter for our discussion, it can be applied to any object:
Object: ManagedService has two groups
- ServiceConfiguraiton
- Remarks

ServiceConfiguraiton group has characteristics:
- ServiceCode
- ServiceDescription
.... etc...
Remarks group has characteristics:
- Type
- Details

In addition - "groups" have cardinalities. For example, we may have zero or many remarks.
Thanks,
I can't really give you business inside on all of these fields, I was not part of the service design.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 05:20
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 04:24
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:51
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:47
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:03
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 06:46
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 04:05
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 09, 2023 16:16
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada
------------------------------

Thank you Matthieu,
I agree, it is good architecture to decouple persistent layer from presentation layer (I think that what you mean in your post).
It looks like TMF 620 (and probably most of TMF open APIs) is an API to persistent layer (in very simplistic view).
Cheers,

Hi Igor,

This is an interesting case. TM Forum Open Digital Architecture has good recommendation for your need.

Product Catalogue and API620 belong to the "core commerce Management" block.  Core commerce block is not meant to manage UI needs. There is a separation of concerns between commerce capabilties and how parties engage (interact and experience) with these capabilities. you can check the ODA Component map to see the recommended functional carchitecture.

What you need belongs to the "Engagement Management" block, which cover multiple capabilities (content, navigation, channel, UI, experience...)

For instance, a CMS can manage how users see product characteristics (some vendors now put their the entire product catalogue in a CMS/PIM to manage the product user experience depending on language, geographic area, device, channel... Some vendors even provide connectors between the product catalogue and the CMS/PIM/PXM.

other ref:

Customer Experience Management Project

PS: characteristics alrady support cardinality in the 620API.

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:16
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

It doesn't have business meaning. It is just convenient way to present it to a user in UI.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:06
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Not sure I understand why you need the group, what is the practical effect for consumers or providers of this information.

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 14:55
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Here the example. It is CFS, but it doesn't matter for our discussion, it can be applied to any object:
Object: ManagedService has two groups
- ServiceConfiguraiton
- Remarks

ServiceConfiguraiton group has characteristics:
- ServiceCode
- ServiceDescription
.... etc...
Remarks group has characteristics:
- Type
- Details

In addition - "groups" have cardinalities. For example, we may have zero or many remarks.
Thanks,
I can't really give you business inside on all of these fields, I was not part of the service design.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 05:20
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 04:24
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (well) feature in a network service that you can activate or deactivate, without going into the details of how the feature is implemented. It was introduced a while back in Resource, and more recently added to Service. I have no plans at present to add at Product layer, to do this we would need some concrete use cases.

Regarding grouping of characteristics, I don't think that it is healthy to do it using product specifications - by going that way you are creating products in the inventory which may have no real semantic meaning as separate products.

Can I suggest that people who want to have a logical group of characteristics, please give a business justification with real and realistic examples, so that the API team can consider whether to design such a solution. Also please state if it is needed only at spec level ("catalog") or also at instance level ("inventory").

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:51
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi,

Yes, exactly.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:47
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hello Abel/Matthieu,
Thank you for the prompt feedback.

Abel, are you referencing to this diagram?

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 11:03
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Matthieu,

I don't see references to this entity other than those that appear in the APIs. The description there is not very clear either: Configuration feature. Anyway, seeing the data model it's quite clear that may be used to logically group characteristics.

About your second question, as they appear in most of the other APIs, I guess that it's a matter of time before they also appear in this one. Perhaps @Jonathan Goldberghas more information.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 06:46
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Abel,
do you have a link from the TMF WIKI that explain the purpose of features? and will it be added in TMF620 V5?

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 10, 2023 04:05
From: Abel Ruiz Huerta
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Igor,

Recently a new entity called feature has been introduced in the standard, which is used precisely to group characteristics. You can find it in most of the information models and APIs where the characteristic pattern is used. For instance, you can take a look at the service order resource of the TMF641 Service Order Management API.

Regards,

------------------------------
Abel Ruiz Huerta
alvatross by SATEC

Original Message:
Sent: May 09, 2023 16:16
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hello fellow TMF members!
I wonder if it is possible to combine characteristics of the object (like product) in groups. Like have group name of "DisplayName" and have multiple characteristics inside the group:

"internalName"/value
"externalName"/value
"some other name"/value
etc....
?
Thank you in advance.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada
------------------------------

Let me try to bring one more example. Let's assume we have asymmetrical P2P connectivity (EVC) between two sites A and Z. In such case we have two groups of the same characteristics related to each site/direction. E.g.
- VLAN
- speed
- QoS
- Terminating Port

I think in this case group does have business meaning, as it has to be configured/provisioned differently on each site.
Cheers,

Thank you Matthieu,
I agree, it is good architecture to decouple persistent layer from presentation layer (I think that what you mean in your post).
It looks like TMF 620 (and probably most of TMF open APIs) is an API to persistent layer (in very simplistic view).
Cheers,

Hi Igor,

This is an interesting case. TM Forum Open Digital Architecture has good recommendation for your need.

Product Catalogue and API620 belong to the "core commerce Management" block.  Core commerce block is not meant to manage UI needs. There is a separation of concerns between commerce capabilties and how parties engage (interact and experience) with these capabilities. you can check the ODA Component map to see the recommended functional carchitecture.

What you need belongs to the "Engagement Management" block, which cover multiple capabilities (content, navigation, channel, UI, experience...)

For instance, a CMS can manage how users see product characteristics (some vendors now put their the entire product catalogue in a CMS/PIM to manage the product user experience depending on language, geographic area, device, channel... Some vendors even provide connectors between the product catalogue and the CMS/PIM/PXM.

other ref:

Customer Experience Management Project

PS: characteristics alrady support cardinality in the 620API.

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:16
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

It doesn't have business meaning. It is just convenient way to present it to a user in UI.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 15:06
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Not sure I understand why you need the group, what is the practical effect for consumers or providers of this information.

------------------------------
Jonathan Goldberg
Amdocs Management Limited
Any opinions and statements made by me on this forum are purely personal, and do not necessarily reflect the position of the TM Forum or my employer.

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 14:55
From: Igor Dubrovin
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Here the example. It is CFS, but it doesn't matter for our discussion, it can be applied to any object:
Object: ManagedService has two groups
- ServiceConfiguraiton
- Remarks

ServiceConfiguraiton group has characteristics:
- ServiceCode
- ServiceDescription
.... etc...
Remarks group has characteristics:
- Type
- Details

In addition - "groups" have cardinalities. For example, we may have zero or many remarks.
Thanks,
I can't really give you business inside on all of these fields, I was not part of the service design.

------------------------------
Igor Dubrovin
Bell Canada

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 05:20
From: Matthieu Hattab
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. altough I can't see a tangible business justification for adding a new entity. SID and API are already dense enough.
The same outcome can be achieved with ProdSpecs (also documented in GB922 - Product)

I remembered Vance writing about it. I couldn't find his post, but I found this other informative discussion:
characteristics vs features [...]

------------------------------
Kind regards,

Matthieu Hattab
Lyse Platform

Original Message:
Sent: May 11, 2023 04:24
From: Jonathan Goldberg
Subject: have a group of characteristics?

Hi all

Feature is not a group of characteristics, at least not to my understanding. It's meant to represent a coherent (